are short boxers wasting time with this sport? (long read)

[juggernautburn]

part 1

i've been studying the sport for quite some time and as a shorter boxer myself, i've been in the midst of devising a proper strategy to fight and beat taller fighters. lets look at the format for most boxers.

In most of the lower divisions, boxers are more or less equivalent in height and reach. sometimes a Paul Williams comes along, but for the purposes of this discussion, he is irrelevant. why? Because Paul does not fight tall. I digress. The vast majority of times in the lower weight divisions, height and reach are equal, unless a fighter decides to be ballsy and move up. (like Pacqiauo)

The heavyweight division is another story, you see a disparity in height and size of the fighters. You have your Mike Tyson's, your Joe Fraziers, and Marcianos. Mike Tyson fought in an era where heavyweights were increasingly getting bigger. Joe Frazier and Marciano may have come across an exceptionally tall guy once in a while, but it was a rarity, and those usually didn't have the skills to match the height.

You move on to the 90's and the Lennox Lewis' and Rid**** Bowe's are around, but not yet completely dominating shorter foes. Evander Holyfield made a contest of the Bowe trilogy and the second Lewis fight. Ray Mercer gives Lewis a hell of a fight.

Coming to the 2000's Lewis beat Tyson decisively, the klitschko's are in complete domination of the division, usually beating on shorter, smaller fighters and enjoying huge reach and height advantages. You have more tall boxers than ever before. There are amateur heavyweight programs that stipulate a height of at least 6'3" to join.

See a trend yet? If you are around mike tyson's height and fighting at heavyweight, it is discouraging seeing how he performed against lewis as well as holyfield. Admittedly, Tyson had a lot of issues, but for short fighters, he is the ONLY fighter to look toward for guidance. (previous short heavyweight did not have to contend with tall, good fighters.

So why are the short heavyweights not having much success in the heavyweight division against tall, GOOD boxers? Because their bread and butter has been eradicated. Tyson wasn't an infighter, but he usually got close enough to land his punches. The short guys have to get past the jab and fight inside. This worked because tall fighters in the past either didn't know how or didn't like to clinch.

A tall fighter that knows how to jab, but more importantly clinch, is a nightmare for a short fighter. What does it matter if you can get past the jab, if as soon as you get in, you are tied up? Well, you can throw some weak punches on the inside, but chances are they won't count. Show me a tall boxer losing to a short boxer, and i'll show a tall boxer that doesn't clinch.

If you are short, you HAVE to be an infighter. You can NOT fight on the outside, ala Adamek-Klitschko, Kirk Johnson-Klitschko, and Chris Byrd - Klitschko. It doesn't work. The taller boxer is going to be a much better outfighter than a short boxer all things being equal because of the height and reach advantage. A short boxer's ONLY advantage is on the inside, but clinching takes that away. It's even worse if you have a ref break it up before you attempt to punch or judges not counting those punches.

So, you can't fight outside or inside. So what to do? part 2 reveals how to deal with this predicament.

[KING MEAT]

according to majority of boxingscene posters, if youre below 5'8, youre a midget.

[juggernautburn]

part 2:

A tall fighter is going to try to keep you at a range where he can hit you, but you can not hit him. For this reason, it is so much easier to learn how to fight tall and be an outfighter. The outfighter style works against people your height as well. if you are short, and have a **** gym and **** trainer that can't teach you to be an infighter, good luck. Most trainers do not even know how to train a short fighter, and that problem is even worse considering there are few gyms around today with credible trainers anyway.

Here is what is going to happen to a short fighter trying to fight heavyweight. You will be ignored. You will go to gym countless times, and you will hit the bags and you will jump rope, speed bag, shadow boxing, and maybe, maybe padwork. EVERYTHING but spar and fight. That's reserved for the tall fighters. you'll have been going for a year with no action and a tall guy comes in and has a fight after 2 months joining. You are looked at as a lost cause. I've seen it and experienced it. and when one gyms rejects you like that, good luck finding another one. Not too many gyms around if you haven't noticed.

at any rate, if you are in this position, beg, plead, bribe if you have to get some sparring. and once in there, don't even think about outfighting/traditional boxing. I found an interesting article for strategy against short fighters that reveals a weakness. http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-s...-shorter-boxer

You have to fight mid range. You have to get inside obviously, and everyone knows by now how to do that, head movement, jab even if it doesn't land, fast feet. Don't lunge, don't reach with your punches, get in and fight. Now, you've gotten past the jab and you are ready to let your punches go. But if things weren't already tricky enough, they get trickier inside. you'll be clinched by a tall fighter that knows what he's doing. The ref might, might even warn him a couple of times, chances are, he won't get a point deducted and will continue holding when you get in close.

So you are clinched, now i have a theory that you can punch while in the clinch. I've watched many fights where one fighter got clinched and had opportunity to punch the body, but failed to do so. Tyson is notorious for that. Some clinches you'll be completely locked up and unable to punch, but the opportunity will come, so land HARD punches. Problem with this strategy is the ref might step in as soon as a clinch happens and even might warn you for punching in the clinch. Another issue is the judges might not count punches in the clinch, even if they are effective.

When you can, avoid the clinch. KNOW that some tall fighters are going to try their hardest to either clinch you or push you away out of mid-range. As well, they will move around trying to avoid you. if you land enough body punches, you'll slow that tactic down. Again, don't do what Tyson did. he initiated clinches sometimes for rest. you can't rest if you're short. That's all i have, i'm still trying to figure out this puzzle that seemingly no one has answer.

[GrandpaBernard]

great thread

there's a reason why wiry and lanky builds are often called "good builds" for boxing. It's perfect for shooting the jab, the main punch in boxing. The punch that makes boxing.

The sport is called boxing and tall people have the advantage boxing all else equal.

Swarmers, sluggers, and brawlers need to have good chins too.

[frosty-g]

juggernautburn
no offence intended but there's so many wrong assumptions, generalisations and simplifications in what you wrote that it's very hard to know where to begin to comment.
there are advantages and disadvantages to being taller or being shorter. the key is to make sure you know what those are and to work with them. also, it depends on what attributes an individual has. i'm tall at 6'1" for 71kg (where i competed) but as i think a lot about what i'm going to do i'm not very active so i actually prefer being up against bigger opponents who are likely to be a bit slower themselves and this plays into my hands a lot more as i'm still thinking at the same speed but have a little more time to move and counter, pick gaps etc. i need to keep my hands higher against a taller opponent though which i usually forget til i get hit!
just one example but there's plenty of other examples that could be made.

[shadeyfizzle]

I disagree. Size and length isnt the problem here. Its speed and technique.

So what if taller fighter has reach?? A simple parry oughtta fix his jab happiness.

The lankier a fighter is the more dangerous it becomes for them to throw looping hooks and uppercuts and overhands.

So if a shorter fighter doesnt have the speed to take advantage of openings angles and parries provide then its a training issue as opposed to some inherent genetic issue.

[Larry the boss]

there have been lots of successful short fighter.there is no certain build that makes you successful.skill knows no size,color or nationality...

[Rockin']

No way. Every fighter must find what works for them and then perfect it. I fought all kinds of tall guys, the funny thing being that you would think that being so tall and skinny would have to mean that they couldn't punch their ways out of a wet paper bag, but it's not so. Those tall/skinny guys can crack. Height is only a power for them if you allow it to be so. With those tall cats I would just throw the technique book out the window because I knew that I had to get inside to wage war if I hoped to win. I made my will over take the will of those opponents. When they can't get you off of them they generally can't do much. But you'd better have your eyes sharp when rolling in because like I said, those guys can generally crack...........Rockin'

[juggernautburn]

hey guys, i know i made generalizations, but to sum up the essay i wrote, i didn't intend to come off as making facts, just observations and to get a discussion.

[frosty-g]

hey guys, i know i made generalizations, but to sum up the essay i wrote, i didn't intend to come off as making facts, just observations and to get a discussion.

cool mate, like i said, no offence intended and it's something definitely worth talking about and there is usually a degree of truth in many generalisations in any case.
i agree with Rockin to a large extent-
"Every fighter must find what works for them and then perfect it"
BUT
i would add that every fighter needs to learn how to box EVERY type of opponent. unless you want to have an achilles' heel of course.