How hard did Marciano hit compared to heavyweights like Foreman, Liston, Shavers

[nomadman]

what barfly said is what i was going to say, i can't think of any other fighter that hit as hard in the last round as he did in the first, anybody that can knock out a bigger man in the late rounds with 1 right hand is a devastating puncher. marciano's punches broke bones

I can think of a couple: Frazier, Wlad, Tua. But yeah, Marciano had great consistency in his power level throughout a fight. It's one of the things that made him so dangerous and exciting.

[Miburo]

Given his small stature he was a brutal puncher.

[nomadman]

P4P Marciano was a brutal puncher. Massive fists linked to short squat arms which he swung like wrecking balls throughout the course of a fight. Regardless of what anyone said about him at the time, the effect his punches had on his opponents speaks for itself. He would achieve genuine one-punch knockouts. He would break bones and smash faces in. Very few fighters in history can claim to be able to do the same, and to have done it time and again like the Rock has. That puts him high on my list of P4P punchers.

But...

He was a small man fighting relatively small men themselves. Shavers, Liston, and especially Foreman and Tyson routinely fought much bigger men, and in Tyson's case achieved a body of knockouts as brutal as anyone in the business. Whilst it's impossible to ever know for certain, I'd hazard a guess that all four men punched harder than him, not necessarily in a P4P sense, but objectively measured. Marciano has a few things going for him however:

- As several have already pointed out, he maintained his power throughout the course of the fight. Shavers's and Tyson's power drastically seemed to drop off in the later rounds.

- He had very good timing and underrated accuracy. Foreman may have possessed more brute power but he would too often just crudely club you to body and head till you fell down.

- He constantly put himself in a position to launch his whole bodyweight into shots. In lieu of his small size that's a great compensating factor.

- He developed his whole style around the ability to land fight stopping shots. The whole bobbing and weaving, wide base, low centre of gravity always allowed him to swing from the hips with massive force.

I'll say this. Whilst I don't think his raw power was as great, if I were to make a study of how to punch hard, I'd rather use Marciano as my model than any of the above, barring perhaps Tyson; though Tyson's style was extremely energy draining and relied on physical talents that the average person doesn't possess. Marciano's style was tiring too (hence his insane conditioning program) but I think it's more applicable to a fighter looking to maximise his punching power. He got the most out of his body every single time. Guys like Foreman tended to coast on their power, whilst fighters like Shavers didn't always apply their power in the best possible way to ending the fight.

I've refrained from posting in the poll as it assumes things that I don't agree with, and is worded in a way that makes one feel disrespectful if you pick option four (which is what I would have gone for).

[Greatest1942]

P4P Marciano was a brutal puncher. Massive fists linked to short squat arms which he swung like wrecking balls throughout the course of a fight. Regardless of what anyone said about him at the time, the effect his punches had on his opponents speaks for itself. He would achieve genuine one-punch knockouts. He would break bones and smash faces in. Very few fighters in history can claim to be able to do the same, and to have done it time and again like the Rock has. That puts him high on my list of P4P punchers.

But...

He was a small man fighting relatively small men themselves. Shavers, Liston, and especially Foreman and Tyson routinely fought much bigger men, and in Tyson's case achieved a body of knockouts as brutal as anyone in the business. Whilst it's impossible to ever know for certain, I'd hazard a guess that all four men punched harder than him, not necessarily in a P4P sense, but objectively measured. Marciano has a few things going for him however:

- As several have already pointed out, he maintained his power throughout the course of the fight. Shavers's and Tyson's power drastically seemed to drop off in the later rounds.

- He had very good timing and underrated accuracy. Foreman may have possessed more brute power but he would too often just crudely club you to body and head till you fell down.

- He constantly put himself in a position to launch his whole bodyweight into shots. In lieu of his small size that's a great compensating factor.

- He developed his whole style around the ability to land fight stopping shots. The whole bobbing and weaving, wide base, low centre of gravity always allowed him to swing from the hips with massive force.

I'll say this. Whilst I don't think his raw power was as great, if I were to make a study of how to punch hard, I'd rather use Marciano as my model than any of the above, barring perhaps Tyson; though Tyson's style was extremely energy draining and relied on physical talents that the average person doesn't possess. Marciano's style was tiring too (hence his insane conditioning program) but I think it's more applicable to a fighter looking to maximise his punching power. He got the most out of his body every single time. Guys like Foreman tended to coast on their power, whilst fighters like Shavers didn't always apply their power in the best possible way to ending the fight.

I've refrained from posting in the poll as it assumes things that I don't agree with, and is worded in a way that makes one feel disrespectful if you pick option four (which is what I would have gone for).

Here's what LaStarza had to say about Rocky.

On fighting Rocky Marciano: "I won the first fight. Everyone thought I won the first fight except the referee. One judge scored it for me, the ref and the other judge gave it to Marciano. All the newspaper guys gave me the decision.

"The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th. "If I had one word to describe Rocky it would be relentless. I would throw a right hand, he would throw a right hand. But the difference was Rocky would throw 10. He didn't hit me the hardest, but he hit me the most often. Don't get me wrong, Rocky was a great fighter. He was tough and he never stopped throwing punches."

Ohh...Rocky faced only small guys ? I am not a Rocky fan. But this is streching it.

He fought---

6'4 254lb jerry jackson - KO 1

6'3 230lb big bill wilson - TKO 1

6'3 220lb Johnny shkor- KO 6

6'5 215lb patrick connelly - KO 1

6'2 214lb Joe Louis - KO 8

Small men right? All of these would have weighed 230-240 in Mikes era. (Many already did).

Mike weighed around 220. And yes he took on bigger guys. But what were those bigger guys ? Were Berbock,Tillis , Green, much better thabn an Old lOuis, Walcott, rex layne, Vingo etc. Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!!I am not a fan of Peek a boo style. In a long fight it is detrimental. And later on you can never be the same. It took some one with the physical assets of Tyson to pull it off.

But compliments on the post over all. I just think Mike hit hard but not so hard as most make it out to be. He was great however at putting in combos with speed and accuracy.That was his forte. No one except Louis did it with more power ,precision and speed. But his one shot power was great but nothing over the top.

[OLD JUD]

.................................................. .................................................. ......He was a small man fighting relatively small men themselves. Shavers, Liston, and especially Foreman and Tyson routinely fought much bigger men, and in Tyson's case achieved a body of knockouts as brutal as anyone in the business. Whilst it's impossible to ever know for certain, I'd hazard a guess that all four men punched harder than him, not necessarily in a P4P sense, but objectively measured. Marciano has a few things going for him however:

- As several have already pointed out, he maintained his power throughout the course of the fight. Shavers's and Tyson's power drastically seemed to drop off in the later rounds.

Shavers was a one trick pony, crude boxing skills, poor stamina, but a lethal puncher.

-
He had very good timing and underrated accuracy. Foreman may have possessed more brute power but he would too often just crudely club you to body and head till you fell down.

Agreed.

.

Here's what LaStarza had to say about Rocky.

On fighting Rocky Marciano: "I won the first fight. Everyone thought I won the first fight except the referee. One judge scored it for me, the ref and the other judge gave it to Marciano. All the newspaper guys gave me the decision.

"The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th. "If I had one word to describe Rocky it would be relentless. I would throw a right hand, he would throw a right hand. But the difference was Rocky would throw 10. He didn't hit me the hardest, but he hit me the most often. Don't get me wrong, Rocky was a great fighter. He was tough and he never stopped throwing punches."

Ohh...Rocky faced only small guys ? I am not a Rocky fan. But this is streching it.

He fought---

6'4 254lb jerry jackson - KO 1

6'3 230lb big bill wilson - TKO 1

6'3 220lb Johnny shkor- KO 6

6'5 215lb patrick connelly - KO 1

6'2 214lb Joe Louis - KO 8

Small men right? All of these would have weighed 230-240 in Mikes era. (Many already did).

Mike weighed around 220. And yes he took on bigger guys. But what were those bigger guys ? Were Berbock,Tillis , Green, much better thabn an Old lOuis, Walcott, rex layne, Vingo etc. Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!!I am not a fan of Peek a boo style. In a long fight it is detrimental. And later on you can never be the same. It took some one with the physical assets of Tyson to pull it off.

But compliments on the post over all. I just think Mike hit hard but not so hard as most make it out to be. He was great however at putting in combos with speed and accuracy.That was his forte. No one except Louis did it with more power ,precision and speed. But his one shot power was great but nothing over the top.

Rocky might well have fought bigger men, but what about the quality of the men you have listed? Should a geriatric Joe Louis be regarded as a creditable opponent?

And a quick comment about Earnie Shavers punching power, from the ONLY man to face both Earnie Shavers and Mike Tyson.......Larry Holmes.

'When Tyson hit me, it was like being hit by a sports car, when Shavers hit me, it was like being hit by a TRUCK!'

'Nuff said..........

[Greatest1942]

Rocky might well have fought bigger men, but what about the quality of the men you have listed? Should a geriatric Joe Louis be regarded as a creditable opponent?

And a quick comment about Earnie Shavers punching power, from the ONLY man to face both Earnie Shavers and Mike Tyson.......Larry Holmes.

'When Tyson hit me, it was like being hit by a sports car, when Shavers hit me, it was like being hit by a TRUCK!'

'Nuff said..........

Question for your enuff said? Where the hell you saw me questioning Shavers power?

Louis was good enough at that stage to be a top contender. Watch his videos. Dont go by prototypes. He was certainly better than the Holmes Tyson beat.

Those guys I named were big men. Question was did Rocky did beat any big men? I listed some. Now you have come up with quality. Okay. Except an old retired Holmes and a light heavy Spinks who did Tyson beat? Like I said Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!! Some of the guys Tyson beat eneded up with losing records. I can assure you those guys were not much worse.

Shavers hits the hardest of the people listed. No doubts about that. Was Marciano a harder hitter than Shavers? No way. Foreman was a more of a clubbing puncher not the type who will put u to sleep with his punches, but the type who will club you down. Was he stronger than Rocky? Hell yea. Punching power potential? George. One punch KO power? Rocky.

Rocky might be a slightly weaker puncher than Shavers , Tyson , Foreman due to him being slower. Where did you see anything that I wrote against it. But telling that he never fought bigger opponents and Tyson was better because he beat bigger opponents is not true either.

[OLD JUD]

Question for your enuff said? Where the hell you saw me questioning Shavers power?

Louis was good enough at that stage to be a top contender. Watch his videos. Dont go by prototypes. He was certainly better than the Holmes Tyson beat.

Those guys I named were big men. Question was did Rocky did beat any big men? I listed some. Now you have come up with quality. Okay. Except an old retired Holmes and a light heavy Spinks who did Tyson beat? Like I said Tyson's 27 fight pre-title opposition?

268 CAREER KO LOSSES !!! Some of the guys Tyson beat eneded up with losing records. I can assure you those guys were not much worse.

Shavers hits the hardest of the people listed. No doubts about that. Was Marciano a harder hitter than Shavers? No way. Foreman was a more of a clubbing puncher not the type who will put u to sleep with his punches, but the type who will club you down. Was he stronger than Rocky? Hell yea. Punching power potential? George. One punch KO power? Rocky.

Rocky might be a slightly weaker puncher than Shavers , Tyson , Foreman due to him being slower. Where did you see anything that I wrote against it. But telling that he never fought bigger opponents and Tyson was better because he beat bigger opponents is not true either.

Before you get too hysterical lets clear one issue up, I DID NOT CLAIM THAT YOU QUESTIONED Shavers punch power........OK?

I simply commented on Shavers power, and YOU have misunderstood that.
And lets be clear on one thing, physical size of opponent is irrelevant, it's the size of the fight within the opponent that counts, better to have a win over a 'Live' 5' 10" opponent than a 6' 4" 'Stiff'...................

[Greatest1942]

Before you get too hysterical lets clear one issue up, I DID NOT CLAIM THAT YOU QUESTIONED Shavers punch power........OK?

I simply commented on Shavers power, and YOU have misunderstood that.
And lets be clear on one thing, physical size of opponent is irrelevant, it's the size of the fight within the opponent that counts, better to have a win over a 'Live' 5' 10" opponent than a 6' 4" 'Stiff'...................

Ha ha...dont wry I wont go hysterical from comments in an internet forum.

I thought I read you asking the quality of those big men. So replied. Some one posted that Marciano was a small guy who beat small guys like himself. While Tyson regularly beat guys bigger than him. And then I replied, you asked their qualities. So I had to go into a bit of depth about some of the big guys others beat.

The last part of my post was regarding the "Quality " of bigger gusy crushed by Mike.

Yea, I never bothered about size much, some really do unfortunately. Good to know that you feel the same

[OLD JUD]

Ha ha...dont wry I wont go hysterical from comments in an internet forum.

I thought I read you asking the quality of those big men. So replied. Some one posted that Marciano was a small guy who beat small guys like himself. While Tyson regularly beat guys bigger than him. And then I replied, you asked their qualities. So I had to go into a bit of depth about some of the big guys others beat.

The last part of my post was regarding the "Quality " of bigger gusy crushed by Mike.

Yea, I never bothered about size much, some really do unfortunately. Good to know that you feel the same

No problem pal, point taken and understood.
I don't want to fall out with any of the sensible guys on here, and you obviously know your game!

[Rolaz]

Why not examine their record?

Rocky Marciano:
49 Wins (43 knockouts, 6 decisions), 0 Losses, 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Marciano
KO percentage = 87.75%

George Foreman:
76 Wins (68 knockouts, 8 decisions), 5 Losses (1 knockout, 4 decisions),
0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foreman
KO Percentage = 89.47%


Sonny Liston:
50 Wins (39 knockouts, 11 decisions), 4 Losses (3 knockouts, 1 decision), 0 Draws
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Liston
KO Percentage = 78%

Ernie Shavers:
74 Wins (68 knockouts, 6 decisions), 14 Losses (7 knockouts, 7 decisions), 1 Draw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers
KO Percentage = 91.89%