What Is Your Opinion About Jake Lamotta? Was He An ATG?

[max baer]

lamotta.jpg
When I watched Raging Bull around 2001 I couldn't stop laughing with diniro and pesci.
Such a great film. He goes "i don't think he likes me " and pesci goes "so what, no one likes you, you oughta be used to that by now."
Or when he accuses his rival of shagging his wife and his paranoia. I thought it was so funny that film.
But where do you guys rank Lamotta? Had been managed right could he have being an ATG?
Was he over rated? What did the mob do to his chances?

[Willow The Wisp]

As most writers, historians and aficionados do, I think that he qualifies as an ATG.

All Time Great is a subjective term, but election to the International Boxing Hall of Fame is not.

Love em' or hate em', agree or disagree; all enshrined in the hall are, by their election, ATGs, by a very objective measure.

[max baer]

As most writers, historians and aficionados do, I think that he qualifies as an ATG.

All Time Great is a subjective term, but election to the International Boxing Hall of Fame is not.

Love em' or hate em', agree or disagree; all enshrined in the hall are, by their election, ATGs, by a very objective measure.

The movie casts him as a terribly tragic figure. He loved aggro. SRR is considered by some the GOAT. He gave SRR a hell of a time! I wondered how much better he could have performed against sugar ray had he lived a better home life.

[DeeMoney]

As most writers, historians and aficionados do, I think that he qualifies as an ATG.

All Time Great is a subjective term, but election to the International Boxing Hall of Fame is not.

Love em' or hate em', agree or disagree; all enshrined in the hall are, by their election, ATGs, by a very objective measure.

Yeah, ATG discussions tend to be more a contention of semantics. I think for most, ATG is a higher rating that being a HOFer; I think most view ATG as being an inner-circle HOFer (which itself tends to get lost in semantics).

[billeau2]

Lamotta did manage to beat the greatest, even if it took a while lol. Quite a character, incredible force of will, much better defensively than given credit for, Nobody just takes punches! Try it some time... I don't think he is so much overrated as being in a weight category with a lot of incredible talent. This makes it hard to use ATG when comparing... But I have no problem calling him an ATG fighter.

[billeau2]

The movie casts him as a terribly tragic figure. He loved aggro. SRR is considered by some the GOAT. He gave SRR a hell of a time! I wondered how much better he could have performed against sugar ray had he lived a better home life.

I think we all do the best with what we got... Lamotta like Liston and so many other fighters came from a brutal background. The Italian American community of that time was a hidden Pandora's box of alchoholism, drug abuse, sociopathy, brutality, along with love, family values, and the drive that makes all Americans great in the next generation. Guys like Lamotta got more of the bad than the good. With that said, Jake, like Sonny had a kind, intelligent, compassionate side as well. As he aged he seemed to learn and denounce the ugliness in favor of the latter.

[Mr Mitts]

Only man to beat Robby in his prime. Not an easy foe for anyone. Besides that he is a contender for best chin ever, along with Chuvalo and a few others.

[Anomalocaris]

I will go against the consensus here.

I think Raging Bull distorted people's thinking.

He was not a devastaring puncher, he was lucky Cerdan was injured and the film made him into a veritable saint compared to the true monster he really was.

Still so were many fighters (Robinson included).

Top 15 at middle?

Maybe.

Top 10?

Not in my opinion.

[Willow The Wisp]

The movie casts him as a terribly tragic figure. He loved aggro. SRR is considered by some the GOAT. He gave SRR a hell of a time! I wondered how much better he could have performed against sugar ray had he lived a better home life.

I'd known him awhile and he was always in a good mood. Lived almost to 100. I never could couple the guy in the movie with the guy I knew, but he was late 60s when we met. Never struck me as a tragic figure. Adversity ruins some and assists others, so who can say?

[billeau2]

I'd known him awhile and he was always in a good mood. Lived almost to 100. I never could couple the guy in the movie with the guy I knew, but he was late 60s when we met. Never struck me as a tragic figure. Adversity ruins some and assists others, so who can say?

As one gets older (speaking of myself here) one learns two truths about life: "Life is complicated" and "Life is simple." People are complex mechanisms, and so are the situations that often control us. You get a hitman that grew up in a family of such... He refuses to kill women and children... You get a legitimate Insurance CEO who makes decisions that wind up killing and affecting families everywhere, including killing women and children with sickness at times, but who is a law abiding citizen...

My dad loved us all and took time to do things with me, but he also had fought as a Marine at 16 (lied about his age) in the second world war and had pretty bad complications... he could react quite violently to things at times. He was never really brutal with us, but I did see him once hit my mother as a kid... Did any of this make him "bad?" a victim of circumstances? On the whole he was a great guy who accomplished a lot.

My point here is to show real life examples that inform us about fighters like Gatti, Lamotta, etc. Being raised a certain way has effects. I have to watch my own behavior at times... I am far to comfortable with parents that would strike out at times! And considering how guys like Lamotta grew up, I m quite sure they also had quite the task of trying to use self control when angered. If they failed at times it was certainly tragic (Gatti for example), but did it diminish them? I do not think it did personally. I feel like it was tragic and could perfectly understand why a guy like Lamotta came to be a charming, witty and socially engaging individual in the later part of his life.