Did Sugar Ray Robinson avoid the black murder's row?

[Ivich]

So let say okay 1943 and beyond. Still no fights with Moore or the Black Murders row. Boxing best pound for pound fighter, so they say looks awful scared of the best black talent based in the USA doesn't he? At least on paper he does.

As a welter or middle. He did not fight any of them! But he did lose to black Englishmen Randy Turpin. Hmm...

1945 Robinson still chasing Cochrane fought.
Tommy Bell
Sugar Costner
Lamotta the no2 ranked Middleweight twice,conceding 9lbs and 10 lbs
Basora the no 4 th ranked Middle ,to a draw.
McDaniels the number 4th ranked Welter.
Dellicurti the no 10. Middle.

NB from 1943 onwards there are no MURDERERS ROW fighters featured at Welterweight in the top ten end of year rankings !

[Ivich]

The Murders row is a group of excellent fighters for Welter to Middle. They were under ranked. Several of these men fought Archie Moore! But Sugar Ray never did.

1946 After 5 years Robinson finally wins the welterweight title.
Among others he fights
Bell no 1
Angott no8
Hudson
Jannazzo
And the hard punching Levine to whom he concedes 9lbs.

[Ivich]

Who are they? Likely fighters you have never seen or talked about that's who.


You are a joke, but thank for proving my point the Sugar Ray Robinson would fight a middle when he wasn't 160 pounds....if he wasn't that good. Dellicurti was 39- 33-9 with only 5 Ko's! He was also only 5'7" tall. Nobody takes you seriously.

Once again no fights with Moore or the Black Murders row.

In1947 Robinson fought
Taylor in defence of his title.
Abrams the no 5th ranked Middle to whom he gave12 lbs!
Wilson the no8 ranked Welter.
Do you really need me to go on making you look ******?

[Ivich]

Wilson lost an MSG decision . A Majority decison is what SRR settled for. MSG place that was mob run you know. Anyway the fight was close!

Armstrong was a great fighter but very shop worn with 150+ fights. He weighed but 140 pounds He stood 5'5 1/2" tall. It was a name win only.

When matched vs. prime black men with skill, SRR lost or had very close fights. And the guys he was matched with were not close to murders row talent or Middle weight Archie Moore. You really do not do any research, do you?

I would plant a rake for you to step on, but you do it all by yourself.

Yes Robinson won a majority decision over the number 3 ranked man and he stopped him in 7 rds in the rematch.
The year after Robinson beat Armstrong who was then ranked number 2,Armstrong was ranked number 1!

How is beating the number 2 and number 1 welter "a name win only"? LOL
Are you saying Robinson did not deserve the win over Wilson,if you are, produce your evidence to support it!

• Referee: Frank Fullam 5-3
• Judge: George Kelly 5-5
• Judge: Bill Healy 6-4

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 5-4

Notes

• A crowd of 16,336 produced a gross gate of $47,683.
• The National Infantile Paralysis Fund received a share of the proceeds.
• Wilson was dropped for a nine-count in the fourth round.
• Referee Frank Fullam said of Wilson: "I don't know what was keeping him on his feet."

None of the officials voted for Wilson.

Basora 6ft
Costner 6 ft

[Dr. Z]

Yes Robinson won a majority decision over the number 3 ranked man and he stopped him in 7 rds in the rematch/The year after Robinson beat Armstrong who was then ranked number 2,Armstrong was ranked number 1! How is beating the number 2 and number 1 welter "a name win only"? LOL
Are you saying Robinson did not deserve the win over Wilson,if you are, produce your evidence to support it!

• Referee: Frank Fullam 5-3
• Judge: George Kelly 5-5
• Judge: Bill Healy 6-4

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 5-4

Notes

• A crowd of 16,336 produced a gross gate of $47,683.
• The National Infantile Paralysis Fund received a share of the proceeds.
• Wilson was dropped for a nine-count in the fourth round.
• Referee Frank Fullam said of Wilson: "I don't know what was keeping him on his feet."

None of the officials voted for Wilson.

Basora 6ft
Costner 6 ft

Oh what do you know, another close fight given the the house fighter at MSG. Anyone can cop and paste at Box Rec. But that does not mean you understand what happed. Did you see it? Well? This fight was one round by one judge from being a draw! Like I said it was very close.

[Ivich]

Oh what do you know, another close fight given the the house fighter at MSG. Anyone can cop and paste at Box Rec. But that does not mean you understand what happed. Did you see it? Well? This fight was one round by one judge from being a draw! Like I said it was very close.

No I didn't see it, and neither did you,the difference is I am not implying the result was a robbery!
Did any of the officials vote for Wilson?
Have you got any evidence to show to us that Wilson deserved the win?
YES?

NO?
ps.
The rematch was in L A . Robinson stopped him in7 rds.
Keep your comments coming, I am enjoying tearing you a new arsehole every post!

[Ivich]

Oh what do you know, another close fight given the the house fighter at MSG. Anyone can cop and paste at Box Rec. But that does not mean you understand what happed. Did you see it? Well? This fight was one round by one judge from being a draw! Like I said it was very close.

1949.
Robinson beat the number 1 welterweight Gavilan and the number 2 Middleweight Belloise.

1950.
He beat
The number 7 welter Fusari
The number 7 Middleweight Barnes
the number 3 Middleweight Villemain x2
He also beat
Wade
Olson
Rindone
Walzack

Want to continue?

[kara]

1949.
Robinson beat the number 1 welterweight Gavilan and the number 2 Middleweight Belloise.

1950.
He beat
The number 7 welter Fusari
The number 7 Middleweight Barnes
the number 3 Middleweight Villemain x2
He also beat
Wade
Olson
Rindone
Walzack

Want to continue?

Some points here.

[Ivich]

Who are they? Likely fighters you have never seen or talked about that's who.


You are a joke, but thank for proving my point the Sugar Ray Robinson would fight a middle when he wasn't 160 pounds....if he wasn't that good. Dellicurti was 39- 33-9 with only 5 Ko's! He was also only 5'7" tall. Nobody takes you seriously.

Once again no fights with Moore or the Black Murders row.

In 1942 taking on his first middleweights Robinson fought the number six middleweight Lamotta conceding13lbs to him
he also fought Dellicurti giving hin 9lbs.
IN1943 ROBINSON.
TWICE FOUGHT NUMBER ONE RANKED LAMOTTA CONCEDING 16POUNDS TO HIM
Have you any idea how utterly ridiculous your absurd comments make you appear?

[Ivich]

The murders row. Their talent was undeniable and can be seen. I'm not going to list links to all of their fights. Each man fought at two least hall of fame opponents, in many cases more than that! Most members are inducted in boxing's hall of fame, Decades too late in my opinion.

There were eight fighters that were feared who were middleweights who fought one another during the same era. They were tagged “Black Murderers Row” by writer Budd Schulberg.

There were Charley Burley, Eddie “Black Dynamite” Booker, Jack Chase, Cocoa Kid, Bert Lytell, Lloyd Marshall, Aaron “Tiger” Wade and Holman Williams.


Charley Burley, 83-12-2 (50), was out of Pittsburgh, PA. He fought from 1936-50. In 1992 he was inducted into the IBHOF and finally inducted into the Pennsylvania Boxing Hall of Fame in 2013. Go figure. Burley was the most feared of the eight. George Gainsford, manager of “Sugar” Ray Robinson omitted they “by-passed” Burley. “His style was such he would have counteracted Robinson’s,” said Gainsford. Johnny Ray, manager of Billy Conn, told matchmaker Art Rooney “never mention his name again”. Fritzie Zivic lost 2 out of 3 to Burley and had his manager Luke Carney take over Burley’s contract to ensure him he would never have to fight him again.

Burley fought such fight as Cocoa Kid 1-0, Holman Williams 3-3-1, Jack Chase 3-0, Aaron Wade 1-0, Archie “Old Mongoose” Moore 1-0 and Bert Lytell 1-1. He had 10 different managers during his career.



Eddie “Black Dynamite” Booker, 66-5-8 (34), of San Jose, CA, was inducted into the IBHOF in 2017. He fought from 1935-1944. He fought Holman Williams, 1-1-1, Cocoa Kid, 0-1, Archie Moore, 1-0-2, Lloyd Marshall 1-0 and Jack Chase 0-1. He was the CA state champion before losing that title to Chase. He was 7-2-1 in title bouts. Booker after defeating Holman Williams retired due to eye trouble at age 27.

Jack “Young Joe Louis” Chase, 82-24-12 (36), was from Walsenburg, Colorado. He was the CA middleweight and light heavyweight champion. He fought Archie Moore, 0-3-1, Eddie Booker 1-0, Charley burley 0-2, Aaron Wade, 2-0-1, Lloyd Marshall, 0-2-1, Holman Williams 0-4, Cocoa Kid, 0-1 from 1936-48.

Cocoa Kid, 177-56-11 (48), was born in Puerto Rico and lived in New Haven, CT. He was inducted into the IBHOF in 2012. He fought from 1929-48. He fought Holman Williams, 6-3-2, Charley Burley, 0-1-1, Eddie Booker, 1-0, Jack Chase, 1-0, Aaron Wade, 0-1, Archie Moore, 0-1, and Bert Lytell, 0-2. Yep you guessed it, he is in the HOF too.

Southpaw Bert “Chocolate Kid” Lytell, 71-23-7 (24), was out of Oakland, CA. Fought from 1944-51. He fought Holman Williams, 1-1-1, Aaron Wade, 0-1, Cocoa Kid, 3-0, Charley Burley 1-1, and Archie Moore, 0-2.

Lloyd Marshall, 70-25-4 (36), was out of Cleveland, OH. Fought from 1936-51. He fought Eddie Booker, 0-1, Charley Burley, 1-0, Holman Williams 1-2, Jack Chase, 0-0-1, Archie Moore, 0-2, Ezzard Charles, 1-2, Jake LaMotta, 1-0, and Joey Maxim, 1-0. He was inducted into the IBHOF in 2010.

Aaron “Tigre” Wade, 61-16-6 (31), was out of San Francisco, CA. He fought from 1935-50. He fought Charley Burley, 0-3, Jack Chase, 0-2-1, Archie Moore, 1-0, Cocoa Kid, 1-0, Bert Lytell, 1-0, and Holman Williams, 0-1.

Holman Williams, 146-31-11 (36), was out of Detroit, MI. He fought from 1932-48. He fought Cocoa Kid, 4-6-1, Eddie Booker, 1-1-1, Lloyd Marshall, 2-1, Jack Chase, 4-0, Aaron Wade, 2-1, Bert Lytell, 1-1-1, and Archie Moore, 1-1. His is in the HOF too.



Well, that is a lot of talent. Sugar Ray did fight black Englishmen Randy Turpin. He was not part of the murders row group. He beat Robinson once and was in the lead losing the other time but lost on TKO. He did cut Robinson in both fights. Thoughts on this topic? What if Turpin was in the murder's row group? How would he do?

To reiterate Murderers Row
1940's Welterweight end of year top ten
40
Robinson an unranked, his first year as a pro lightweight
Burley no 3
Williams no6
Cocoa Kid no7

41
Robinson no1
Burley no 5
Williams no6
Cocoa Kid no7

42
Robinson no1
Cocoa Kid no 4
Edgar no7
After this NO Murderers Row featured in the Rings end of year ratings at Welterweight.

1950's Middleweight end of year top ten .
One of the Row ranked in the whole decade Artie Towne at no 10 in1955.

50-60's Middleweight end of year ratings NO Murderers Row ranked.

From 1940 Marshall was top ten ranked at Light heavy.

From 1942 Bolden was top ten ranked at Light heavy..

From1943 Booker was top ten ranked at Light heavy.

From1946 Moore and Chase were top ten ranked at Light heavy.
This was the year Robinson won the Welterweight title.