The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards giving his thoughts on the fallout from Ryan Garcia’s positive VADA tests, the August 3 fight between Terence Crawford and Israil Madrimov, and what might happen when Tyson Fury and Oleksandr Usyk meet two weeks from today

Peace and blessings, sir.

A few weeks ago you said boxing fans were the worst thing for the sport, I couldn’t agree more. Case in point this Ryan Garcia fiasco. There are fans out here blaming Ryan’s positive test on Devin Haney or comparing Devin gaining weight after a weigh in to a FAILED PED test. Newsflash, nobody forced Ryan to miss weight and test positive for a banned substance. That’s on him, not his opponent. These idiots online are clouded by their dislike of fighters that objectivity is nonexistent. This is insanity, if you had a fighter take that kind of punishment vs a guy who came up dirty, what actions would you be able to take? 

Thank you for your time. 

Jack from Detroit. 

Bread’s Response: You know, I don’t know how to feel about this. I don’t know if I pity the ignorance or repel it. I don’t rule out anything to be honest. So I always leave myself a 10% chance to be WRONG. So as of now what we know is Ryan Garcia tested positive to PEDS. That can’t be refuted. We also have to WAIT for the B samples. So let’s see what they say. Ryan deserves his right to defend himself and to due process.

I also have read that Devin Haney or Victor Conte “SET UP” Ryan Garcia. I’m not going to say that it’s impossible. But I will say it’s highly unlikely that they set him up because of the way VADA does its testing. I’ve had several fighters tested with VADA.... But I’m willing to hear Ryan’s explanation. I’m willing to let due process take place. 

I also believe that if Ryan really believes he was SET UP, he should sue whoever is responsible. If VADA collected the samples then VADA would have to be in on the set up along with whoever else is responsible. When you sue, full disclosure happens in court. It’s one of the reasons people settle out of court because they don’t want certain things to come out that are not for public consumption. So I’m waiting to see how THAT plays out.. on BOTH sides.

Now, Here is what I can’t take……I can’t take fans, trainers, media etc etc talking nonsense. Most don’t know what the VADA testing consists of, yet they talk like they know. I keep hearing that Ryan only had a small amount of PEDS in his system. I’ve also heard he tested NEGATIVE all throughout camp, then the last test came up positive, as if negative test results exclude Ryan from being positive. Then I heard someone say why did they let him fight, if they knew he was dirty.

Let me address those misconceptions. A small amount doesn’t mean that the PEDS were inconsequential. Most athletes who cheat, do something called MICRODOSING, they don’t allow a large amount of the PEDS to be in their system. So they take small amounts on a schedule. So for the geniuses who say there was only a small amount in anyone’s system, that means nothing in terms of guilt or innocence. It usually is a small amount unless the person who administered the PEDS is an idiot. 

The other misconception is that Ryan passed a test throughout camp. That doesn’t mean anything either. The point of the cheating is to NOT get CAUGHT. So just because he wasn’t caught earlier in camp it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. It means he wasn’t caught doing it.

As for why they let him fight. They let him fight because the results for the last test didn’t come back until AFTER the fight. If Ryan was tested on April 19th and April 20th and the fight was April 20th and VADA testing is done at WADA accredited labs how is it possible for the results to be back before they fought? It’s impossible!!!! It’s not a pregnancy test or rapid covid test!!

So again let’s see how this all plays out. I literally have a headache because so many people have asked me about this. 

Let’s see what the B samples say. Let’s see what Ryan’s list of supplements contain. Let’s see if Ryan sues Victor Conte and Devin Haney. Let’s see if Devin Haney sues Ryan Garcia. I am very curious to see how both parties conduct themselves moving forward. It will show me a lot.

To answer you directly, if one of my fighters ever lost to a fighter who later tested positive, I would advise my fighter to SUE them. I would also request the commission that oversaw the bout to ban the fighter indefinitely. And last but not least, I would contact the local authorities about an actual arrest. 

If someone doesn’t take strong actions against this, then it won’t stop. The punishment has to be greater than the reward, if we want to stop the infractions. 

For the record, I don’t have a horse in the race. I don’t want Ryan to be guilty OR innocent. I want the TRUTH to come out. And most importantly I want boxing to go where the evidence takes them and not go where the money takes them. We shall see….

Hey Bread, 

In anticipation of Inoue’s next fight decided to put in a few short questions on his legacy and place in boxing history based on what he achieved so far. Can we say that he is already the best Japanese fighter in history surpassing his great countryman Fighting Harada? Can we say now that he is the second best Asian fighter of all time – behind only Manny Pacquiao? And can we say that he is a top 10 or even top 5 best 118 lb ever – in the company of Eder Jofre, Carlos Zarate, Ruben Olivares, Panama Al Brown…

Thanks. 

Mike

P.S: Interesting to see him fight in catchweight with Estrada or Chocolatito. If those fights happen, whom do you see win?

Bread’s Response: I don’t like to say these things about a still active fighter. Especially in an era of high PED use. So let’s just say this. If Inoue does NOT have any positive PED test, and he keeps performing on the level that he's been on. Everything you said is TRUE.

Inoue is a special fighter. I just don’t want to get ahead of myself and anoint him then something comes up about him and you guys flood my emails with insults…So I try to not only be objective but patient.

Editor’s Note: Inoue has been subject to VADA testing throughout his career.

Hey Breadman!

I've been a huge boxing fan for most of my life. It's been over a week, and while I've witnessed the good, bad, and ugly sides of boxing, I don't recall being so disgusted with boxing as I do now after witnessing Ryan Garcia's embarrassing and blatant disrespect for boxing in the buildup and aftermath of his fight with Devin Haney.

Essentially, he fabricated—or at the very least exaggerated—mental illness and falsely claimed being sexually abused in the lead-up to the fight, all to throw Haney off his game. While I was rooting for Ryan when the fight was announced, I have to say Haney was completely shafted. He was stuck in a high-risk, zero-reward situation where beating Garcia would have earned him no credit due to Garcia's troubling antics. I don't see how any fighter could truly stay dialled in being in Devin's position.

Ryan seemed very aware of this as it was premeditated to put himself in a position where he had everything to gain and could use mental health excuses and sympathy had he lost. Additionally, he manipulated the system by blatantly disregarding the weight limit, which I believe heavily influenced the fight outcome. Ryan appeared to be the inferior fighter technically as evidenced by his poorly executed shoulder roll, where he illegally turned his back to his opponent. The main difference on fight night was that Haney couldn't hurt Garcia nor take his punches well, and I’m convinced he would have fared much better if he had been able to weigh in at 143.5 lb like Ryan or had he implemented a rehydration clause on Ryan. IMO Team Haney wrongfully overestimated Garcia and figured they could win despite these disadvantages and opted to take the extra money. It appears Ryan deliberately wanted to face an unfocused, less-than-100% Devin, while also affording himself an unfair size advantage. At the very least, Ryan could have approached Team Haney a few days before the fight to suggest that both fighters come in at 143.5.

I can't think of another top tier pro boxer having such a lack of integrity as Ryan does. It's bewildering to see reputable boxing experts and fellow boxers congratulating him for such a dirty, dishonourable victory. It's one thing for star fighters like DLH, Mayweather, and Canelo to negotiate catchweights, but forcing your opponent to drain and deplete himself to make weight while intentionally coming in with an unfair advantage is just next level despicable and unsportsmanlike. And the fact that Ryan has been gloating about this highly suspect win just shows what type of person he is. What are your thoughts?

Best Regards! 

Will

Bread’s Response: I wasn’t overly critical of Ryan for missing weight. I believe the weight was a factor but both had over 36 hours to rehydrate. On top of that he was fined. In my opinion Team Haney didn’t overestimate Ryan, they underestimated him. Being compensated financially is fine but they allowed Ryan to rehydrate as high as he wanted to. Rehydration weight is more important than weigh-in weight. And since Ryan came in 3.2lbs over, then he would have had to agree to the rehydration terms. But it didn’t happen and that’s not Ryan’s fault, that’s on Team Haney.

However, I will be critical if Ryan’s B samples for his drug test come back positive like his A samples did. I understand your frustration but boxing doesn’t work like you think it should work. 

Devin was the champion. He signed the contract to defend his title. There is no way he would accept what you said. Any champion is going to make their opponent suck down in weight especially when the opponent had TIME to make weight. When Ryan didn’t suck down in weight, Team Haney should have punished him. They chose to go after money and that’s what they got. Ryan went after the win, and as of now that’s what he got. You get what you negotiate. 

I don’t want to get into anyone’s character. Ryan’s fans are happy he won. And Devin’s fans are not. That’s typical. People have a right to be happy when they get the outcome they wanted. Besides this is boxing, not church. Morals and integrity are not prevalent in this sport.

Hi Bread,

I've been shocked by how positively people are talking about Ryan. This reminded me of Corrales v Castillo II. If you have two guys that are big and tight at the weight and one chooses to be professional & boil down to the weight & the other just doesn't bother then obviously the latter has given himself a huge advantage. I'm sure that if Devin had known it was going to be a non-title fight at 144 then he would've prepared accordingly & probably won. Poor guy was ambushed! I've always thought that dehydrating & starving yourself would weaken you & most affect your strength & punch resistance but I've heard a lot of boxers say that actually the worst effects of crashing weight are to reduce your sharpness & reflexes. 

Any thoughts Bread?  

Certainly, Devin didn't look sharp & he was eating shots all night. I would be slightly concerned at the beating he took. Should he have been pulled out?

Finally, where do these guys go from here? Oddly, I look at their frames & think Ryan should be able to make 140 if he was properly dedicated & sensible. If he chooses to go to 147, however, I could see them making Crawford v Garcia. Bud isn't a young man & must be thinking about cashing in before he retires. That would make shedloads of $.

I'm not sure Devin can safely make 140 any more but if he goes to 147, coming off a loss, he isn't getting any favours. He might end up with Jaron & I can't see that going well for him.

What are your thoughts, Bread?

Bread’s Response: Cutting too much weight can cause issues with punch resistance, stamina, and it will affect your sharpness and reaction time. Devin just moved up from 135. If making 140 is an issue, then he may be already suffering from the effects of cutting weight for too many years.

Neither Devin nor Ryan would be well advised to fight Jaron Ennis at this point. In fact I don’t believe any of the elite 140lbers will move up looking for Ennis. They may move up but I highly doubt if they look for him.

Where do they go? Well let’s see how the positive test plays out……This is boxing and I have no idea how that will play out.

Hello Breadman, 

I think the Crawford Madrimov fight is a mismatch in favor of Crawford. Madrimov has only had 11 fights, limited experience and faced nowhere near the calibre of Crawford. Also what is going on with the Charlo twins. Do you think it is possible we see Jermell Charlo fight Crawford, and how do you see this fight going? And what do you think of Tim Tszyu fighting Veirgil Ortiz. Wasn’t Ortiz supposed to be a super fight for Boots Ennis down the line at some point.

Thank You

J.B.

Bread’s Response: I don’t think Crawford vs Madrimov is a mismatch. But if it turns out to be one, I will give you your props. 

I don’t know what’s going on with the Charlo twins. I think they may be having some personal issues. I wish them well. 

Tszyu vs Ortiz seems a little soon for today’s market but I will take it. I would rather a fight happen too early, than a fight happen too late or never happen at all. Bowe vs Lewis, Lopez vs Gamboa and Loma vs Garcia NEVER happened at all……..

Hi,

Hope you’re doing well. I like what I’ve seen of Madrimov but something struck me. I was also a fan of Davey Moore’s in the early to mid 80’s. Going into the Duran fight I thought he had a good chance. The parallels with Crawford-Madrimov are interesting. Two world champions with good amateur experience but very few pro fights going in against potential ATGs who are moving up. I know Crawford is not in a slump like Duran was who only had the win over a faded Cuevas going in after some disappointing performances. Moore was brutalized and never the same again before his untimely passing. Hopefully Madrimov isn’t ruined. Would be interested in your thoughts on the parallels.

Take care

Dave

Bread’s Response: When fights get made I always think of historical parallels. I love your parallel. Duran cooled Moore’s fiery attitude down with brutal counter shots to the body. Crawford can throw those same shots. I actually think the fight goes a lot like Duran vs Moore but more competitive. I think Madrimov is harder to time than Moore was. I also believe that Crawford is more vulnerable early than Duran was. So I expect Madrimov to fight well early. Maybe even scoring a knockdown or visually stunning Crawford. But at some point I expect Crawford to just CLICK. To get Madrimov’s timing and start rolling. I actually think Crawford will at some point start walking Madrimov down and pressing the bigger man backwards for a late rally or stoppage.

Mr. Edwards,

I love reading your mailbag at BoxingScene! We just saw Vergil Ortiz put away Thomas Dulorme by a vicious body shot within the first three minutes of their fight in Fresno. I think even Vergil has said he knows he needs rounds to shake off the rust from not having fought in a long time. With a potential Tim Tszyu fight coming up next for him, what can Vergil do (other than take another tune-up fight) to be as rust-free as possible? Can really hard sparring accomplish the same thing (or close to it) without having to risk a loss by taking another fight before the Tszyu match? This is my first time writing in and I have so many more questions, but I'll leave at this for now.

Regards,

Judah

Bread’s Response: Really hard sparring is going to have to do, because Ortiz can’t take the chance of getting cut with another tune up. I think going through two good camps will serve Ortiz well. He can’t control how long his fights go. But he can control how much he does in camp. And he just went through two camps back to back. I think Ortiz needs the step up fight. Ortiz is so destructive that his current level of his opponents just can’t hang with him, so he needs top guys. He’s going to gain his experience with the top guys. Ortiz just needs hard, elite sparring partners that will push him in camp. And I don’t believe rust will be an issue. The level of fighter that Tim Tszyu is will be Vergil Ortiz’s biggest issue. 

Tim Tszyu can BUMP. But while we factor in Ortiz’s ring rust, we have to factor in the damage that was done to Tszyu in his fight with Fundora. That was a grueling fight that Tim not only suffered a deep cut in, but a fight where he took some hard shots and he had to really push himself to get through it. So we have to see how back to back tough fights will affect Tszyu as well as Ortiz’s ring rust. 

In my opinion ring rust will not be that big of a deal. Ortiz’s experience going through the rounds is more of an issue in a tough 50/50 fight. Competing every second of every round and not being able to rest mentally because you know you may lose is what I’m talking about. Tim Tszyu just went through it with Fundora. Now we have to see how Vergil handles this.

I love this match up. It’s one the best fights that could’ve been made in boxing.

Hi Breadman

You have a great brain for boxing. I would like to say thanks to you for sharing it. I enjoy reading your knowledge. I’m from England and Tyson Fury is one of my favourite fighters. I cannot wait for the fight with Usyk. Both are great fighters and no doubt the best two heavyweights on the planet at present. As long as Tyson hasn’t ‘aged’ I think Tyson will train like a beast and wipe Usyk out. However great Usyk is, Tyson usually gets it together for the big fights. How do you feel this fight will go?

I would also like to thank Turki Alalsheikh. So many great fights happening because of his vision. What a G that man is!

Keep up the great work Breadman

Kyle of Leamington Spa

Bread’s Response: There is something in boxing called “Cooling a fighter off”. It’s when you hear that your opponent is having a great camp and you postpone the fight, just to make your opponent stop and restart camp…….Hmmm……..

I don’t think Tyson Fury can wipe Usyk out. I don’t think anyone can wipe him out. But anyone can lose on a given day. I expect a highly competitive fight that will go deep, possibly the distance. I think Fury will be in better shape than he would’ve been for their earlier date. But Usyk can be also. Usyk is a professional and he seems to know what he’s doing. He can also be in better shape…..I think the postponement benefited Fury more, but if Usyk does his camp right, he will be fine. Can’t wait. This is a historically significant fight.

Hey Bread. Hope you’re doing good. I’ve been thinking for a while that nobody really gets to Canelo’s midsection. Maybe I’m wrong but I’ve never really seen him hurt to the body. My thoughts are that if a fighter can get to his body, they may have chance of wearing down his gas tank and exposing an endurance issue that has already shown itself in the past.   

GGG landed nearly no body shots and he still wore him down pretty good in the first fight. But Canelo has a short torso and thick arms and it seems to make his body defence nearly impenetrable. I know a short torso can be an advantage and his counter punching makes it hard but I think some big body shots could have made that fight decisive for GGG. 

I know the fight might not happen but I feel like Terence Crawford is a fighter who could get to his body. He’s strong and super accurate and can probably make Canelo miss up top and counter him hard to the body. I’d love to see him try it because Canelo’s head appears to be a cinder block thus far into his career and body work might make him show vulnerability. It’s easier said than done but what do you think?

Chad

Bread’s Response: Good observation. You’re correct. Fighters don’t go to Canelo’s body. I was puzzled that GGG didn’t go to Canelo’s body. GGG is murder to the body. I’ve seen him in camp. But there is a reason why fighters don’t go to Canelo’s body. It’s because he’s low to the ground and he’s brutal with his counter punching. He’s not going to JUST let you touch his body. You’re going to have to take some heavy heat going to his body. Canelo discourages his opponents from going to his body.

Terence Crawford is one of the best body punchers if not the best body puncher in boxing. Crawford doesn’t load up his body shots. He whips them in without telegraphing he’s going to the body with stance. Oftentimes fighters telegraph when they will go to the body. They over bend their knees and their eyes focus on the body too much and the opponent picks up on it. 

Whereas Crawford just whips in body shots from his primary boxing stance. Crawford also COUNTERS to the body which is something that most fighters don’t do. So while an opponent is letting energy out with a punch, they are vulnerable for that specific moment and Crawford hits you to the body right in that vulnerable moment.

Crawford’s body attack reminds me of the great Mike McCallum. The issue with Crawford getting to Canelo’s body is the size difference. I think Crawford can beat Canelo but I suspect he has to fight a safety first fight and just get the win. He may not be able to go to Canelo’s body too often because he can be knocked out. Canelo is a serious puncher and he’s very strong. You can’t be greedy with him. So while I would pick Crawford to win, I suspect he would be conservative in his body punching vs the great countering Canelo.

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