So, You Wanna Be a Promoter?

So, You Wanna Be a Promoter:  A Conversation with Jake Donovan

By:  Kevin Kincade (photo by Stephen Burt)

Have you ever found yourself in a boxing-starved city and can’t believe that the only way you can indulge your favorite past time is to turn on the boob tube and watch the latest prima Donnas in their latest title-fights?  What about the journeymen, the trial horses and the ham-n-eggers?  What about the heart of the sport?  What about the crowd noise, the sweat and blood flying, the roller coaster of emotion that can only come from being at a boxing card in person?  Did you ever think about being the next Don King or Bob Arum or, at the very least, bringing boxing to your town so you can always have it around and share it with those who have yet to experience the chaotic bliss that is a live fight?  That question is what inspired me to call up Jake Donovan, who just finished promoting his first boxing card, and ask him what he’s learned from it all; and if he would be willing to share the lessons he’s learned from pushing the school of hard knocks with all of the other boxing junkies out there. 

Thankfully, Mr. Donovan was more than willing to comply.  So grab your pencil and paper class; Boxing Promoting 101 is now officially in session.

BoxingScene.com:  Jake, how did you get involved with boxing?

Jake:  I was pretty much born into the sport.  My grandfather was a boxer way back pretty close to the turn of the century, actually.  He started boxing very young.  He was born in 1910 and started boxing by the age of eight.  He had about a hundred and twenty amateur fights or so.  He fought Tony Canzoneri four times in the amateurs.

BoxingScene.com:  Really?!

Jake:  Yeah, it was pretty much his claim to fame and Canzoneri remained in his pro life.  He ended up a sparring partner for Al Singer, who Canzoneri ended up defeating to win the lightweight title. 

BoxingScene.com:  That’s another famous fighter.

Jake:  Yeah, but (my grandfather) was just disgusted though ‘cause he knew he was so much better than Al; but, boxing was pretty much controlled by the mafia back then:  the Jewish Mob and so many various forms of the mob. So, my grandfather was always held back in that regard.  There were too many Irish fighters at the top.  They needed a Jewish guy and eventually they needed an Italian.  My grandfather was held back and he hated that he had to work with Singer, so he ended up getting some work with Canzoneri as well, prior to their two fights.  So, anyway, my Dad became an amateur boxer based on, (laughs) being my grandfather’s son.  And then, like I said, I was pretty much born into the sport; I watched it all my life.  I was an amateur fighter in the army. 

BoxingScene.com:  So, how’d you do?

Jake:  Uh, not very well.  (laughs)  Eleven and four, four knock-outs.  My favorite story is I always tell people that I’m a much better writer than a fighter.

BoxingScene.com:  Uh huh.

Jake:  My last fight was against a guy in Germany and my German was apparently very bad ‘cause I thought I was fighting a guy that was 9-0.  The guy handled me and I found out he was 0 and 9; turns out it was his first win.  It was a bit disheartening.  (Laughs)  So (I told myself) Stick to writing ‘cause you can’t fight.

BoxingScene.com: (laughing) So, I presume you’re background is what hooked you into the sport, then.

Jake:  Well, I kind of resented it as a kid.  I guess it was just normal B.S. problems teenagers have with their parents - I kind of shied away from what my father enjoyed and was doing my own thing. But then when I served in the army I saw the first fight between Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank…or I should say Eubank-Benn ‘cause Eubank did win it; but I mean just the crowd atmosphere and them two going at it:  it’s one of the best fights I’ve ever attended live.  And that just brought me back into the sport in terms of being a boxing junkie.  I’ve been hooked ever since.

BoxingScene.com:  I’m sure you’re aware that boxing has been slipping in popularity.  As someone who’s been around the sport his entire life and is presently involved in it, why do you think it’s sliding in popularity among sports fans?

Jake:  *sighs* There are a couple of reasons and it might a matter of the dog just chasing its tail or whatever.  The networks seem to turn there back on it.  I guess they’re just never gonna be happy with what boxing can produce.  What’s weird is…I mean between boxing standards and the real world standards….they (the networks) didn’t feel “The Contender” was good enough for their ratings, yet their season finale rated higher than any show boxing ever put on for the year.  Even when ESPN hosted “The Contender”, it was the highest rated show of the year.  Ring Magazine, when they had “The Contender” on the cover, it was their most sold publication of 2005.  Yet, by “real world” standards, it just…it wasn’t enough for the sell. 

I guess they put too much money into it and they didn’t feel they got the results they wanted.  I guess cause they can’t control the sport; and that, in and of itself, is a problem in boxing.  Ya know, the inmates pretty much run the asylum.  So, I just think that the people who control it are always gonna want to do things their way.  They don’t want other people dictating to them how the sport should be run.  I mean, ‘cause you do look at a show like “The Contender”.  Is that how boxing really is?  Hell no.  I mean sixteen fighters don’t live with each other before they fight…(chuckles)…and they don’t fight two or three days apart.  I think that’s the problem.  The problem is, how do you fix it?  Nobody ever seems to have the answer.  Everybody keeps shouting “Federal Commission, Federal Commission!”  Fine, who’s gonna run it?  The government’s trying to run the IBF.  Are they any better now than they were before Bob Lee was sent to the slammer?  Hell no.  In fact, they’re worse.     They’re losing credibility by the second. 

BoxingScene.com:  Well yeah, the whole Zab Judah-Carlos Baldomir thing.  Carlos wins the fight; but because he doesn’t pay the fees, he doesn’t get the belt.  To me, that’s symbolic of saying, “Okay, you gotta buy the belt.”

Jake:  Exactly.

BoxingScene.com:  So, now, Mayweather beats Judah, gets the belt and they’re claiming he’s a four division titlist, when he didn’t win the real Jr. Welterweight Title either; but I’m getting off topic.  (laughs)

Jake:  Well, no, no.  It is a valid point.  Just like Oscar De La Hoya this last weekend.  He beat Ricardo Mayorga so he’s a nine-time champion in six weight classes.  He got knocked out by Bernard Hopkins who is the only middleweight champion of technically the past five years; but truthfully, he’s been the dominant middleweight since 1995, yet Oscar’s still paraded as a six-division champ. So, that lends to confusion in the public. You know, the Pittsburgh Steelers won the Super Bowl this year; they are the Super Bowl Champs. It’s not that, okay, there were a couple of fluke calls, it should have went the other way, that they should’ve lost.  People can identify in other sports with who are the world champs.  Chicago White Sox won the World Series last year.  It doesn’t matter who’s the better team, the White Sox won the World Series.  Yet, with boxing, you got a hundred different guys calling themselves world champs; and it lends to confusion.  People look at Floyd Mayweather and say, “He might be the best Welterweight”, yet Carlos Baldomir regardless of who he paid and who he didn’t pay, is THE Welterweight Champ.  He may not be the best; but he’s the champ.  That’s all there is to it. 

BoxingScene.com:  Would it be possible, in your opinion, if enough state commissions banded together and refused to sanction paper title bouts…..the guys can still fight; but they can’t defend the belt, unless it’s the legitimate World Championship; in other words, make the fighters choose between the paper belt and the fight taking place....would that put enough pressure on the paper titles that they would have to go elsewhere or go bankrupt, if the state commissions presented a unified front against them?

Jake:  Hmm, that is a good point.  The ABC was formed supposedly for that reason, supposedly to take away control not only from the WBC, the WBA, and the IBF, but promoters looking to build fighters records on states with no standards. Yet the ABC just doesn’t seem to have any teeth. I mean all the state governing bodies, all the state commissions are supposed to fall under that one umbrella; but every state STILL seems to have different rules.  You can fight in Tennessee and all you have to do, pretty much, is show up, make sure your ID is up to date and they’ll give you a pre-fight physical, YET in South Carolina, all that’s required is an H.I.V. test. 

You got to Florida and all you need is a Hepatitis test.  What’s required to fight in each state still varies.  Why is that if the ABC is supposed to be the parenting governing body?  So, if they did do their job, then yes they would put pressure on the other sanctioning bodies.  Now, that said, though, it’s funny that you mention states turning away sanctioning bodies.  The IBF tried to sanction the Bobby Gunn-Shelby Gross fight as the IBF South Regional Title; but because they couldn’t communicate with the state in time, it didn’t get done.  The IBF blamed the Tennessee Commission for not responding; but the Commission decided “Hey, you let us know at the last minute, didn’t tell us any of the terms; we’re not gonna sit around and wait for you to tell us how much it’s gonna cost.”  They stuck to their guidelines. 

So, if other states did stick to the true guidelines, then yes, I do think that would push the sanctioning bodies out.  But, the rules always seem to get bent.  Why?  Because there’s money on the table.  Which, I never understood because it costs an arm and a leg just to buy these stupid titles, which is all you’re really doing.  I mean a guy can beat another guy in the ring and call himself superior. Why should he have to pay extra just to put a belt around his waist? 

BoxingScene.com:  Recently, you promoted “Road to Glory” here in Nashville.  Is that the first time you promoted an event?

Jake:  Yes.  That’s the first time I started as a promoter.  I’ve been a consultant to other shows; but that was my first one.

BoxingScene.com:  So what made you decide that that was what you wanted to do?

Jake:  Well, with some of the guys on the show; they just couldn’t get fights.  (chuckles)  And truthfully, I can now see why they couldn’t.  They’re all very talented fighters but boxing’s a very tough business.  Unless you’re a Bob Arum or a Don King, or you know, someone at the top, it’s a hard business to make money.  If you don’t have a TV date, you’re not gonna get rich off the sport, unless you put on garbage shows with no budget and people are willing to buy it.  In other states, it does happen.  In Tennessee, it seems to be hit or miss.  You know, people got rich off it in the past; but I think, especially in Nashville, they just walk up to (the venue) and say “We’re not gonna pay for garbage.  We’re only gonna pay for quality entertainment.”  I’m kinda drifting away from the point; but with some of the guys that were on the show, they just couldn’t get fights and I got tired of trying to find other promoters to put them on their cards so I just said “I’m gonna grab the bulls by the horns and do it myself.” 

BoxingScene.com:  So how’d it go for you?

Jake:  I thought the fights were very successful.  People came up to me afterwards and said it was one of the best shows they’d ever seen in Nashville.  The problem was there were not enough paying people there to tell me that.  (chuckles)  It was a disappointment at the box office; I’m not gonna lie.

BoxingScene.com:  Why do you think it didn’t do well?  Was it because the fighters were not “stars”, even though you had about four local fighters on the card?

Jake:  I think each fighter overestimated his own worth and I believed it.  That was my own mistake.  I mean any mistakes I made I have to accept blame for it.  You know, I thought so-and-so fighters would sell so many tickets and they didn’t.  Nashville, I don’t think, is ever gonna be a boxing town.  Don King once brought I think five world title fights here.  It was the only show he ever brought here and it eventually launched the fights at the Mix Factory where the guys that ran that show had kind of like a pipeline to King where they brought his fighters in for tune-up wins; but it was only on that level.  It just never got to the level - it’ll never be the Tennessee Titans of boxing.  What I’d like to do…what I learned from that show is I could still bring quality boxing here; but on a smaller scale. 

It doesn’t have to be a big budget as long as you’re giving the fans entertaining fights.  And it doesn’t have to be just entertaining guys, ya know, two guys climbing off their stools and fighting each other.  I think we could still serve a purpose here (by putting together a card) where guys get in the ring and fight good, competitive, entertaining fights.  I do believe they’re in the market for that in Nashville.

BoxingScene.com:   So, Now that you’ve gotten your feet wet in the promotions business, what surprised you the most?  What about promoting a boxing card that happened did you not anticipate or did it go pretty much the way you figured?

Jake:  What surprised me?  (chuckles)  Well, I guess in a good way, I found that there are a lot of boxing fans in Nashville.  That did surprise me.  I moved here from New York three years ago and there, every time there was a fight, we had a fight party.  Family members, friends came; you always could find people that were into the sport.  Down here, it’s just a struggle.  It’s like all my boxing friends live miles apart.  But I found that the minute I started talking about it, all of a sudden people starting bringing up their fondest memories.  You know, it wasn’t talk of when’s Mike Tyson gonna fight Oscar De La Hoya (laughs) which is the usual when you get around the water cooler at work in this town.  I did find a lot of people who had legitimate memories of the sport and seemed like they were willing to help.  So, a buzz got created; but for some reason, it just didn’t translate over to fight night. 

So, in that regard, I was happy to find people who did want to support the sport.  The surprise in the negative aspect was “if you pay this…”, it was almost like a sanctioning body in where, you know, “We’re interested; but only if you pay.”  That was the disappointment.  Some people were legitimately willing to help, like Justin Styll of 104.5 The Zone and a few others; but unfortunately, there were more that weren’t.

BoxingScene.com:  What are some of the more difficult aspects of promoting an event?

Jake:  Sponsorship, which is the biggest thing.  If you don’t have TV money and sponsorship, then just don’t do it; if I could give any advice to someone wanting to do it, that’s it, unless you’re loaded and don’t mind blowing a ton of money at the gate.  (chuckles)  Don’t do it, unless you’ve got people willing to invest.

BoxingScene.com:  So, is it impossible to make money off a fight card that’s not on T.V.?

Jake:  It’s not impossible.  It just depends on what market you might be catering to.  For example, Ramón Arellano Jr, which a lot of people in Nashville know; he could fight the first guy to walk through the door and people would probably pay to see him fight.  If that…you have to cater to that certain audience and that would be the Latino audience.  They’re gonna want a product that they can care about.  Fans almost always gravitate to what’s in the ring.  I hate to say it; but race and nationality almost always are a factor.  I mean, you can’t cater to a Mexican crowd if there are no Mexicans on the show.  I mean maybe genuine boxing fans will come see it; but (the fans) want someone to rally around. 

BoxingScene.com:  Well, that’s the way it’s always been.  You were talking earlier about your grandfather, who fought back in the early 1900’s; and back then it was very common to have a Jewish fighter pitted against an Irish fighter or an Italian.  That’s the history of the sport.  So, the point you’re getting to is:  If you’re going to promote a fight, know you’re market, know your audience and build your fights around that market if you want to get the most income.

Jake:  Absolutely.

BoxingScene.com:  So, what about this card, “Road to Glory”, gave you a migraine?  What about this whole ordeal gave you the biggest headache?

Jake:  (chuckling) Announcing that it was going on.  The whole show was a migraine.  You know, a lot of it was my fault.  I was a one man show for a lot of it.  Some people did want to help; but I think my own inexperience just held them back from helping.  I just didn’t know what to ask them to do sometimes.  I think part of me just doesn’t have the nerve to ask this person, “Can you do this, can you do this?” if I can’t afford to pay them.  So, the migraine, I guess I brought it on myself.  And dealing with fighters; $500 fighters all of a sudden become $500,000  fighters if they find a first time promoter’s putting on a show.  It’s just disheartening and I do realize why a lot of people just don’t like the sport.  It’s just filled with whores. 

BoxingScene.com:  (Laughs)

Jake:  (laughing) I’m sorry to put it that way; but it is.  It’s sad.  I mean everyone’s just looking to rip ya anyway they can.  There were some guys that were a huge help. I gotta give a shout out to my man, Malcolm Terry, out of Covington, TN.  He trains Marteze Logan, Donnell Logan, he’s got another hidden secret in this kid named Ira Terry; but he truly empathized with what I was going through.  He tried to do his thing out in Memphis and lost a ton of money his first time out and then it got a little better and he said, “you know what?  I’m a lot better at training and managing than I am at promoting.”  So, he pretty much knew where I was coming from and he did all he could to try and help me out; I can’t say the same thing for a lot of guys on the show. 

A guy like James “Spider” Webb was a big help too.  He’s someone who you should be catering to him; but he did everything he could to help my promotion out.  I was pretty humbled by him.  Marty Dale Robbins, the same thing.  Even Bobby Gunn and his manager, Richard King, stepped up in a big way.  There was a couple of times I told him that things weren’t going the way I wanted them to, it’s not selling the way I want it to and I was just gonna have to pull the plug on the show. He did everything in his power to keep the show alive.  So, guys like that, I’ll always appreciate.  Jonathan Reid, Ernie Rodriguez out of Cummins Station Fitness.  Jonathan just kept asking “What can I do to help, what can I do to help?”  I just kept telling people to sell tickets and he’s like, “Well, who do you got collecting gloves?”  And I said, “I don’t know”.  And he said, “Well you can’t do everything yourself.  I’ll stand in one corner, Ernie’ll stand in the other and when the fights are over, we’ll make sure the gloves get back to you.”  And, you know Jonathan Reid’s involved in “The Contender” and other things and he should have to worry about stuff like that, yet, here he comes offering to help me out.  Unfortunately, that’s the exception more often than the rule.

BoxingScene.com:  So what are you going to take away from this event and use in your next promotion?

Jake:  Don’t do it bigger than the capabilities you have to do it.  Like with this first show, I tried to bring quality boxing to Nashville.  Those who were there appreciated it; but, unfortunately, my bank account suffered as a result.  So, I just have to know my limit and know who I’m marketing to, know my audience.  One mistake I did make; you know I’ve always spoken out against the sanctioning bodies; but with the main event, Bobby Gunn verses Shelby Gross, it was kind of brought to me as a world title fight.  On paper, being a first time promoter with a world title fight, I felt would be an impressive resume filler.  Some people did buy into it; but in the end, I should have stuck to my principles, you know.  Who cares what title’s on the line?  Just market the fight.  And, in that regard, just bring good quality fights.  Nothing has to be on the line.  Like Jerome Pillow and Mary Robbins; they wanted something to fight for.  I went out and bought a title.  I called it the Mid-South Junior Lightweight Championship.  I bought a title for $45 dollars, you know.  Whatever.

BoxingScene.com:  They put on a great show.

Jake:  Exactly; and I think even without that stupid title they would have put on a great show.  And I do think there are fighters out there who want to do what it takes to get to the next level.  That was my original intention and I just need to stick to my guns. 

BoxingScene.com:  What advice would you give any fledgling promoter who’s out there who just wants to put together a card with quality fights?

Jake:  Make sure you got all your ducks in a row before you go into it.  Don’t say, “Here’s the date, here’s the venue, I’ll build from there.”  That’s not gonna work….unless you just happen to walk bass-akwards into some luck.  It’s not gonna happen.  Know who’s gonna invest with you, know who’s gonna be along for the ride.  Know who you want on your show beforehand.  Again, don’t just put up a date and hope that….  Fighters will come flock to it; but you’re not always gonna get…you’re gonna end up exceeding your budget and that’s where you go wrong.  Stick to your budget.  That’s the biggest thing.  If you’re gonna have a $10,000 dollar show, stick to that.  And again, have everything set in place before you go forward with the show. 

BoxingScene.com:  Jake Donovan, thank you very much for your time and advice.

Jake:  Thank you, Kevin.     

Questions or Comments:  kevin.kincade@citcomm.com