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  • Steroid Allegations: Unfounded to Begin With

    I posted this as an article on this website: (Updated) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/325088


    What's up with people saying that Pacquiao has gotten so much bigger throughout his career? This is a guy who made weight at 130 the night before and rehydrated to 144. After not having to make weight, he came in at 142 for DLH and fought at 148 pounds. That's a 4 lb difference in his fight night weight. Not that big of a deal... And don't even give me that 106 lb **** cause he was 16 and PBF was 106 lbs at that age too.

    One minute his jumping up in weights in scrutinized. "He fought a paper champ at 135 in Diaz and a shot DLH." At one point his 8 weight class career was downsized since he started as just a kid, and completely not a big deal. At one point people even said that Pacquiao didn't carry his power up with him as he moved up in weight. He turned from a one punch knockout artist with the left hand into a combination, wear you down, fighter. He was hated on for not being able to put down this "shot DLH."

    Now after these steroid accusations, DLH goes back on his statements claiming that Pac was featherfisted, and claimed he must be on steroids since he hit as hard as Vargas and Mosley. His rise in the weight classes is due to steroids and all of a sudden he is "bigger and stronger" at these weight classes.

    See Gregg Doyel's, columnist for CBS Sports, statements regarding Pacquiao.
    Not Pacquiao. The bigger he gets, the older he gets (he's 31), the better he gets. He was 39-3-2 with 30 knockouts in 44 fights at weights ranging from 106 to 129½ pounds. In his past 11 fights, most of them over 130 pounds and some of them into the 140s, he is 11-0 with eight knockouts, and he has done that against some of the world's best fighters in those classes.
    Is it impossible for a boxer to peak at 31? Have you seen him fight lately? It has obviously been his technical skills that have helped him get by these better fighters. The 106 to 140 argument is null and doesn't even need to be recognized. (See Mayweather's career/other boxers in history, if you include their weights at 16 years old.) Doyel provides statistics comparing Pacquiao's career under 130lbs to his career over 130lbs. This author suggests that Pacquiao has more power for his weight class now that he has moved up in weight class. Based on the statistics that he provided, Pacquiao's KO percentage was 77% when he was below 130 pounds in his 39 wins compared to a 73% KO percentage in his 11 wins over 130lbs. He conveniently starts this 11 fight win streak after his Morales loss, a fight in which Pacquiao weighed 129.5. After increasing to 130, he had 7 fights at that weight, registering 4 knockouts and displaying the same knockout power that he had throughout his career.

    Here is where it gets interesting. In his next 4 fights, he fought at 135, 147, 140, and 145. If Doyel were to separate Pacquiao's career into to two separate career's he should have split it here (or before his Morales loss, which was also at the 130 limit. Ofcourse, that would not strengthen his argument because a 39-2-2 pre-steroid record compared to a 11-1 steroid usage argument would not convince anyone anything). His 4 latest fights at much higher weight classes are where Manny has shown tremendous improvement in his career. However, I do not believe this to be due to his increased power, but to increased skill level. He hit Diaz and De La Hoya with everything but the ring stool. Those were accumulation knock outs. His unofficial fight weights on the night of the fight never exceeded 148, only 4 lbs higher than when he would struggle to make the 130 weight class (and rehydrate to 144-see Pac-Morales III). This isn't a much stronger, powerful Pacquiao. This is a much better one. One who adjusted to Cotto and countered him with a right hook over Cotto's jab all night. One who made Hatton's "left hook, slip underneath, same move everytime," phrase famous after he executed it to perfection against him in the first round. One who counter punched a counter puncher in Juan Manuel Marquez to knock him down, instead of recklessly going after him, albeit knocking him down three times, the way he did in the first fight. And one who boxed beautifully, in and out, against De La Hoya, peppering him with shots that critics (and De La Hoya himself) originally claimed had no power behind them. This isn't a more powerful Pacquiao, but it certainly is a more skilled one.

    Have we forgotten the Manny Pacquiao that almost killed Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym in a super bantamweight championship fight in 1 round? That Manny Pacquiao had serious one punch knockout power. I have always said that MP at 122 had the most devastating one punch power. Looking at his hits on Miguel Cotto, I could care less if Paulie Malignaggi was hitting him with those shots, Cotto would have been banged up. What people don't understand is that his technique gives him that power. Anytime you can close the gap between you and a fighter, hit them with a clean punch and snap their ****ing head back, you will hurt them. Cotto was getting hit clean all night against Pacquiao. There are some people will raw power who dent up the bag like George Foreman. Edwin Valero punishes his opponents, even when they're blocking his punches. I can't see him carrying his punching power with him up the weight classes. Pacquiao does because, like I said, he's stepping into his punches, closing gaps ridiculously quickly, and hitting his target clean. That's gonna open up a couple cuts and dent up Cotto/De La Hoya/Diaz's face the way they did. Especially, if you land near 70 punches. (See De La Hoya round 7)

    So first he's downplayed, and now he's turned into Superman, for the sole purpose of creating these steroid allegations. It's horrible that people fell for this and that Mayweather Sr. was able to get away with this.

    There isn't a doubt in my mind that there was NO evidence against Pac for being on steroids prior to this issue being brought up. With no ties to BALCO or any suspicious trainers (and not to mention.. is still not that much bigger or powerful....), Pacquiao should not be wrongly accused of taking steroids. (What's up with Mayweather saying the Philippines has the best steroids... unfounded.) In fact, Andre Ward having that one trainer associated with steroids should put HIM in more hot water than Manny Pacquiao. (I would hate it if it did happen though, I'm from the Bay and support Dre.)

    In the end, the only evidence against Pacquiao taking steroids is his unwillingness to get blood tested. (<---Trust me, I'm not downplaying this. But this is the only thing that suggests he is on steroids. His unwillingness to do something he has not had to do for 40+ fights in his career, albeit not 30 million dollar paydays. Pride and routine surely factor into this. Who the hell wants to take a blood test if it makes them weaker for 3 days, especially if you have to do it 14 days before the fight. That's still in the middle of an important part of training, and there goes 3 days.... But then again, I'd do that **** for 30 mil.) Suspicious, for sure, but there is serious doubt as to whether he should have been accused in the first place. This dude isn't any bigger, doesn't punch any harder, has only improved his skills greatly to get where he's at. And now Sr.'s convinced the world otherwise.....

    If you told me to bet my bank account that crack head ass Mayweather Sr. would be able to convince the world something as unfounded as this... I'd be a broke motha****a right now.
    Last edited by the330ballers; 01-13-2010, 06:23 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by the330ballers View Post
    What's up with people saying that Pacquiao has gotten so much bigger throughout his career? This is a guy who made weight at 130 the night before and rehydrated to 144. After not having to make weight, he came in at 142 for DLH and fought at 148 pounds. That's a 4 lb difference in his fight night weight. Not that big of a deal... And don't even give me that 106 lb **** cause he was 16 and PBF was 106 lbs at that age too.

    One minute his jumping up in weights in scrutinized. "He fought a paper champ at 135 in Diaz and a shot DLH." At one point his 8 weight class career was downsized since he started as just a kid, and completely not a big deal. At one point people even said that Pacquiao didn't carry his power up with him as he moved up in weight. He turned from a one punch knockout artist with the left hand into a combination, wear you down, fighter. He was hated on for not being able to put down this "shot DLH."

    Now after these steroid accusations, DLH goes back on his statements claiming that Pac was featherfisted, and claimed he must be on steroids since he hit as hard as Vargas and Mosley. His rise in the weight classes is due to steroids and all of a sudden he is "bigger and stronger" at these weight classes.

    See Gregg Doyel's, columnist for CBS Sports, statements regarding Pacquiao.

    Is it impossible for a boxer to peak at 31? Have you seen him fight lately? It has obviously been his technical skills that have helped him get by these better fighters. The 106 to 140 argument is dumb and doesn't even need to be recognized. (See Mayweather's career, a million others.) And this author suggests that Pacquiao has more power for his weight class now that he has moved up in weight class.

    Have we forgotten the Manny Pacquiao that almost killed that Thai fighter in a super bantamweight championship fight in 1 round? That Manny Pacquiao had serious one punch knockout power. I have always said that MP at 122 had the most devastating one punch power. Looking at his hits on Miguel Cotto, I could care less if Paulie Malignaggi was hitting him with those shots, Cotto would have been banged up. What you don't understand is that his technique gives him that power. Anytime you can close the gap between you and a fighter, hit them with a clean punch and snap their ****ing head back, you will hurt them. Cotto was getting hit clean all night against Pacquiao.

    So first he's downplayed, and now he's turned into Superman, for the sole purpose of creating these steroid allegations. It's horrible that people fell for this and that Mayweather Sr. was able to get away with this.

    There isn't a doubt in my mind that there was NO evidence against Pac for being on steroids prior to this issue being brought up. With no ties to BALCO or any suspicious trainers (and not to mention.. is still not that much bigger or powerful....), Pacquiao should not be wrongly accused of taking steroids. (What's up with Mayweather saying the Philippines has the best steroids... unfounded.) In fact, Andre Ward having that one trainer associated with steroids should put HIM in more hot water than Manny Pacquiao. (I would hate it if it did happen though, I'm from the Bay and support Dre.)

    In the end, the only evidence against Pacquiao taking steroids is his unwillingness to get blood tested. (<---Trust me, I'm not downplaying this. But this is the only thing that suggests he is on steroids. His unwillingness to do something he has not had to do for 40+ fights in his career, albeit not 30 million dollar paydays. Pride and routine surely factor into this. Who the hell wants to take a blood test if it makes them weaker for 3 days, especially if you have to do it 14 days before the fight. That's still in the middle of an important part of training, and there goes 3 days.... But then again, I'd do that **** for 30 mil.) Suspicious, for sure, but there is serious doubt as to whether he should have been accused in the first place. This dude isn't any bigger, doesn't punch any harder, has only improved his skills greatly to get where he's at. And now Sr.'s convinced the world otherwise.....

    If you told me to bet my bank account that crack head ass Mayweather Sr. would be able to convince the world something as unfounded as this... I'd be a broke motha****a right now.
    Who the **** are you Thomas Jefferson? That **** was long as **** ain't nobody gonna read all that. It's like the ****ing Bible or some ****.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mushahadeen View Post
      Who the **** are you Thomas Jefferson? That **** was long as **** ain't nobody gonna read all that. It's like the ****ing Bible or some ****.
      LOL I really didn't mean to write that much I just went off. Ive been following this steroid thing for days and havent said ****.....

      Comment


      • #4
        haha I read the whole thing. You made some good points in there. But you know nobody that disagrees will read the whole thing. They'll read the first couple paragraphs, tune it out, get pissed, and hit "reply".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mushahadeen View Post
          Who the **** are you Thomas Jefferson? That **** was long as **** ain't nobody gonna read all that. It's like the ****ing Bible or some ****.
          hahahaha No shiiit. I read the first paragraph then scrolled down to see how much was left and said "hell no, I'm not reading all of that". lol

          Comment


          • #6
            I read the whole post. nice post alot of good points and i agree with you man. Will Im killing alot time here at work this thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by the330ballers View Post
              What's up with people saying that Pacquiao has gotten so much bigger throughout his career? This is a guy who made weight at 130 the night before and rehydrated to 144. After not having to make weight, he came in at 142 for DLH and fought at 148 pounds. That's a 4 lb difference in his fight night weight. Not that big of a deal... And don't even give me that 106 lb **** cause he was 16 and PBF was 106 lbs at that age too.

              One minute his jumping up in weights in scrutinized. "He fought a paper champ at 135 in Diaz and a shot DLH." At one point his 8 weight class career was downsized since he started as just a kid, and completely not a big deal. At one point people even said that Pacquiao didn't carry his power up with him as he moved up in weight. He turned from a one punch knockout artist with the left hand into a combination, wear you down, fighter. He was hated on for not being able to put down this "shot DLH."

              Now after these steroid accusations, DLH goes back on his statements claiming that Pac was featherfisted, and claimed he must be on steroids since he hit as hard as Vargas and Mosley. His rise in the weight classes is due to steroids and all of a sudden he is "bigger and stronger" at these weight classes.

              See Gregg Doyel's, columnist for CBS Sports, statements regarding Pacquiao.

              Is it impossible for a boxer to peak at 31? Have you seen him fight lately? It has obviously been his technical skills that have helped him get by these better fighters. The 106 to 140 argument is null and doesn't even need to be recognized. (See Mayweather's career, a million other boxers in history, if you include there weights at 16yo.) And this author suggests that Pacquiao has more power for his weight class now that he has moved up in weight class.

              Have we forgotten the Manny Pacquiao that almost killed that Thai fighter in a super bantamweight championship fight in 1 round? That Manny Pacquiao had serious one punch knockout power. I have always said that MP at 122 had the most devastating one punch power. Looking at his hits on Miguel Cotto, I could care less if Paulie Malignaggi was hitting him with those shots, Cotto would have been banged up. What you don't understand is that his technique gives him that power. Anytime you can close the gap between you and a fighter, hit them with a clean punch and snap their ****ing head back, you will hurt them. Cotto was getting hit clean all night against Pacquiao.

              So first he's downplayed, and now he's turned into Superman, for the sole purpose of creating these steroid allegations. It's horrible that people fell for this and that Mayweather Sr. was able to get away with this.

              There isn't a doubt in my mind that there was NO evidence against Pac for being on steroids prior to this issue being brought up. With no ties to BALCO or any suspicious trainers (and not to mention.. is still not that much bigger or powerful....), Pacquiao should not be wrongly accused of taking steroids. (What's up with Mayweather saying the Philippines has the best steroids... unfounded.) In fact, Andre Ward having that one trainer associated with steroids should put HIM in more hot water than Manny Pacquiao. (I would hate it if it did happen though, I'm from the Bay and support Dre.)

              In the end, the only evidence against Pacquiao taking steroids is his unwillingness to get blood tested. (<---Trust me, I'm not downplaying this. But this is the only thing that suggests he is on steroids. His unwillingness to do something he has not had to do for 40+ fights in his career, albeit not 30 million dollar paydays. Pride and routine surely factor into this. Who the hell wants to take a blood test if it makes them weaker for 3 days, especially if you have to do it 14 days before the fight. That's still in the middle of an important part of training, and there goes 3 days.... But then again, I'd do that **** for 30 mil.) Suspicious, for sure, but there is serious doubt as to whether he should have been accused in the first place. This dude isn't any bigger, doesn't punch any harder, has only improved his skills greatly to get where he's at. And now Sr.'s convinced the world otherwise.....

              If you told me to bet my bank account that crack head ass Mayweather Sr. would be able to convince the world something as unfounded as this... I'd be a broke motha****a right now.
              Good post man, they were just underestimating manny's skill at this point of his career. Manny has always had that tremendous stamina, always had that speed and he always fight in an awkward way and that i should say is one of his strength. And now through years of training with freddy, roach was able to make manny be more confident on his right fist, moves with his feet more, has more variety with his punches and more importantly he has improved a lot with his defence but at the same time have trained himself to be more punch resistant..

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by the330ballers View Post
                What's up with people saying that Pacquiao has gotten so much bigger throughout his career? This is a guy who made weight at 130 the night before and rehydrated to 144. After not having to make weight, he came in at 142 for DLH and fought at 148 pounds. That's a 4 lb difference in his fight night weight. Not that big of a deal... And don't even give me that 106 lb **** cause he was 16 and PBF was 106 lbs at that age too.

                One minute his jumping up in weights in scrutinized. "He fought a paper champ at 135 in Diaz and a shot DLH." At one point his 8 weight class career was downsized since he started as just a kid, and completely not a big deal. At one point people even said that Pacquiao didn't carry his power up with him as he moved up in weight. He turned from a one punch knockout artist with the left hand into a combination, wear you down, fighter. He was hated on for not being able to put down this "shot DLH."

                Now after these steroid accusations, DLH goes back on his statements claiming that Pac was featherfisted, and claimed he must be on steroids since he hit as hard as Vargas and Mosley. His rise in the weight classes is due to steroids and all of a sudden he is "bigger and stronger" at these weight classes.

                See Gregg Doyel's, columnist for CBS Sports, statements regarding Pacquiao.

                Is it impossible for a boxer to peak at 31? Have you seen him fight lately? It has obviously been his technical skills that have helped him get by these better fighters. The 106 to 140 argument is null and doesn't even need to be recognized. (See Mayweather's career, a million other boxers in history, if you include there weights at 16yo.) And this author suggests that Pacquiao has more power for his weight class now that he has moved up in weight class.

                Have we forgotten the Manny Pacquiao that almost killed that Thai fighter in a super bantamweight championship fight in 1 round? That Manny Pacquiao had serious one punch knockout power. I have always said that MP at 122 had the most devastating one punch power. Looking at his hits on Miguel Cotto, I could care less if Paulie Malignaggi was hitting him with those shots, Cotto would have been banged up. What you don't understand is that his technique gives him that power. Anytime you can close the gap between you and a fighter, hit them with a clean punch and snap their ****ing head back, you will hurt them. Cotto was getting hit clean all night against Pacquiao.

                So first he's downplayed, and now he's turned into Superman, for the sole purpose of creating these steroid allegations. It's horrible that people fell for this and that Mayweather Sr. was able to get away with this.

                There isn't a doubt in my mind that there was NO evidence against Pac for being on steroids prior to this issue being brought up. With no ties to BALCO or any suspicious trainers (and not to mention.. is still not that much bigger or powerful....), Pacquiao should not be wrongly accused of taking steroids. (What's up with Mayweather saying the Philippines has the best steroids... unfounded.) In fact, Andre Ward having that one trainer associated with steroids should put HIM in more hot water than Manny Pacquiao. (I would hate it if it did happen though, I'm from the Bay and support Dre.)

                In the end, the only evidence against Pacquiao taking steroids is his unwillingness to get blood tested. (<---Trust me, I'm not downplaying this. But this is the only thing that suggests he is on steroids. His unwillingness to do something he has not had to do for 40+ fights in his career, albeit not 30 million dollar paydays. Pride and routine surely factor into this. Who the hell wants to take a blood test if it makes them weaker for 3 days, especially if you have to do it 14 days before the fight. That's still in the middle of an important part of training, and there goes 3 days.... But then again, I'd do that **** for 30 mil.) Suspicious, for sure, but there is serious doubt as to whether he should have been accused in the first place. This dude isn't any bigger, doesn't punch any harder, has only improved his skills greatly to get where he's at. And now Sr.'s convinced the world otherwise.....

                If you told me to bet my bank account that crack head ass Mayweather Sr. would be able to convince the world something as unfounded as this... I'd be a broke motha****a right now.

                Very good post. I'll give you pts if you value it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Any thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    People with nothing to hide don't run from tests. Especially for $40 million.

                    Comment

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